DS7604-K1/4P(B) - Firmware Issues V4.30.061

[JB1970]

I just installed a new system for a customer on Friday. Latest firmware was installed prior to installation/configuration - 4.30.061. This has a couple of issues that need resolving. The system I installed was just three 4MP AcuSense (2346G2-IU)

Live view on local monitor stream switch. Many moons ago you could set up each window division of a live screen view as Sub Stream, Main Stream or Auto. It would work as follows:
- Set to sub stream it would keep showing the sub stream whether in multiscreen or when double clicked to maximise
- Set to main stream it would keep showing the main stream whether in multiscreen or when double clicked to maximise
- Set to Auto it would display the sub stream when in multiscreen view but automatically change to main stream when maximised with a double click and revert back to sub stream when returning to multiscreen.

The option to set to have the choice like above was removed long ago and since then Auto is how it is set.

Unfortunately this does not work on 4.30.061. In a 4 x 4 split - all 4 window divisions were set to show the sub stream
- when you double click to maximise it switches to main stream (as it should)
- when you double click again to return to multiscreen, the other cameras go into "No Resource" for a few seconds
- When it settles and all images are displayed - 2 of the 3 cameras are showing the main stream instead of sub stream.

This happens every time you double click a window division then return to the 4 x 4 multiscreen with another double click. Awful.

Password Change Prompt. Set up a user account while logged in as Admin for the end user with a password of their choice. Every time they login now, they're prompted to change the password. It's obviously this way by design but completely unnecessary and means to get rid of the annoying prompt they need to change from the password they've chosen initially.

Event Playback to Normal Playback Switch. When viewing Event Playback/Smart playback it's simple to skip the unrelated video, jumping between events. When something of interest appears during Smart Playback - you could click on to Normal Playback. This continues playback at the same point (or used to) without interruption, and without jumping to the next event. When you're done, you could click Event Playback again and it would resume at the same point and skip unrelated video to the next event. In 4.30.061 if you're viewing in Event Playback mode, spot something of interest, and want to view it continuously - clicking Normal Playback will start the camera playing back from midnight or the first recording on the selected day. So you have to manually navigate the timeline to find the event.

 

[Kyle]

Thanks, as always! I've passed your findings onto Hikvision and asked whether these issues are being addressed - I'll update you with anything I hear back.

 

[JB1970]

Thanks, as always! I've passed your findings onto Hikvision and asked whether these issues are being addressed - I'll update you with anything I hear back.

Thanks - I did also ping a message to UK support.

There was another issue on a previous version of 4.30.xxx (.055 possibly) which I didn't get chance to check if it had been resolved or not. On the local GUI logged in as Admin you could create a user but it was not possible to edit any permissions for the user account locally - the icon was missing and they had to be amended using web browser access.

 

[JB1970]

Just to provide an update on this. I updated the customers firmware remotely this morning to the newly released version 4.30.085_210409. Unfortunately the customer reports the "no resource" / failure to automatically switch stream issue remains and appears to be worse since the update. Individual cameras are now remaining showing "no resource" until the stream is manually switched. Of course it would be the job that's a 40 minute drive away

 

[Kyle]

Sorry to hear it, that's typical I've passed on your update - thanks.

Have you managed to check if this is still an issue on v4.30.085?

On the local GUI logged in as Admin you could create a user but it was not possible to edit any permissions for the user account locally - the icon was missing and they had to be amended using web browser access.

 

[JB1970]

Sorry to hear it, that's typical I've passed on your update - thanks.

Have you managed to check if this is still an issue on v4.30.085?

I didn't unfortunately - I've not been back to site and it only affected the local setup. It may not have even been an issue on the previous version (.061) TBH. I noticed it on a new install last month and remember I had updated it to the latest version after purchase. However 4.30.055 has a April 7th 2021 release date on the portal so it can't have been that one, but I don't think it was 4.30.010 either as that looks too old (with a September 24th 2020 release). `There might have been a version that was pulled maybe. I remember that as well as there being no way to edit the permissions locally, the new user account was also added as "guest" without a choice.

 

[Kyle]

Just to provide an update on this. I updated the customers firmware remotely this morning to the newly released version 4.30.085_210409. Unfortunately the customer reports the "no resource" / failure to automatically switch stream issue remains and appears to be worse since the update. Individual cameras are now remaining showing "no resource" until the stream is manually switched. Of course it would be the job that's a 40 minute drive away

Not sure if you've already resolved this yourself, but Hik have asked if you can do the following to rule out it being due to K-Series' "limited decoding capabilities" before investigating further. I guess you've already ruled this out, and that it isn't due to this as manually switching the cameras gets rid of "no resource", but…

• Drop the bitrate and resolution of the sub-stream to 2Mbps and 720p respectively.
• Drop these on the main stream as well if no luck with the above.
• I'm assuming these haven't changed from when all worked OK before anyway?

If you're still no further with the issue, they've asked if you can let us know which cameras are connected to the NVR, as well as the coding type, bit rate and resolution of both streams on the cameras please.

 

[JB1970]

Not sure if you've already resolved this yourself, but Hik have asked if you can do the following to rule out it being due to K-Series' "limited decoding capabilities" before investigating further. I guess you've already ruled this out, and that it isn't due to this as manually switching the cameras gets rid of "no resource", but…

• Drop the bitrate and resolution of the sub-stream to 2Mbps and 720p respectively.
• Drop these on the main stream as well if no luck with the above.
• I'm assuming these haven't changed from when all worked OK before anyway?

If you're still no further with the issue, they've asked if you can let us know which cameras are connected to the NVR, as well as the coding type, bit rate and resolution of both streams on the cameras please.

Hi Kyle

Thanks for your input. The three cameras connected to the NVR are DS-2CD2346G2-IU.

• The main stream is set to H265, 4MP (2688 x 1520), 12FPS with a bit rate of 3072 kbps
• The sub stream is set to H265, 640 x 360, 12FPS with a bit rate of 512 kbps

Yes - the issue is a result of "limited decoding capabilities" for sure. But and this is a HUGE but.....only because of the flawed firmware not switching streams as it should (automatically). To clarify the issue:

• When switching to a 4 way split screen the NVR should be showing the sub stream for all 4 cameras (or 3 in this instance) - that's 4 streams at 640 x 360 resolution - well within its decoding capabilities, which is 4 streams at 1920 x 1080 max.
• Double clicking a window division switches to full screen main stream on that one camera - 2688 x 1520 - also well within its decoding capabilities.
• However when double clicking back to the 4 way split the NVR is attempting to keep all of the cameras showing the main stream which we know it is incapable of decoding. And so it fails, shows "no resource" and finally fathoms out after a short period that switching 2 of the cameras to their sub streams will bring it back within its decoding capabilities.........until next time we double click in the 4 way split and the issues return when switching back

What it should be doing is automatically requesting ALL cameras to sub stream for the 4 window multiscreen to avoid it going into "no resource". That is how the NVRs have worked going back the SE and E1 series back in 2015! (though back then you could override that behaviour in the settings if you wished)

To summarise - the NVR is perfectly capable with regard to decoding but is failing because it is only requesting a stream change when going between multi and single view (sub to main) but not in the other direction.

An analogy (that Jonathan Van Tam would be proud of) - If I were to walk into a gym and load 100 Kilos on the Smith machine and complete a set of squats, would I then put a bench under the bar and do a bench press? I could but I'd be crushed - epic fail. I'd remove a few plates first.....to lighten the load.

Feel free to pass my message on to Hikvision unedited.

 

[Kyle]

Sorry for the slow response @JB1970 - that's been passed on (unedited)

 

[JB1970]

Sorry for the slow response @JB1970 - that's been passed on (unedited)

Many thanks Kyle - appreciated. It appears that on models over 4 cameras, the 4 x 4 split shows all main stream. Multiscreen above that auto switch streams between sub and main. There should be an option as there used to be chose, as to the customer it screams fault when "no resource" appears.

Incidentally I was working on a 6 year old 7604E1/4P NVR yesterday, adding a camera and that worked better than the K series. As one of the H265 cameras was causing "unsupported stream type" on that recorder, I needed to set all the cameras to H264, but could then choose to configure the screen to auto switch streams/or not. In this case I was able to leave an old 3MP mini dome (DS-2CD2132-I), a 2MP Darkfighter turret (DS-2CD2325FWD-I) and a 4MP AcuSense turret (DS-2CD2346G2-IU) all set to display the main stream in 4 x 4 multiscreen without issue.

I'm not sure whether the K series would work any better with regard to live view decoding if I were to use H264 rather than H265.

 

[Kyle]

Many thanks Kyle - appreciated. It appears that on models over 4 cameras, the 4 x 4 split shows all main stream. Multiscreen above that auto switch streams between sub and main. There should be an option as there used to be chose, as to the customer it screams fault when "no resource" appears.

Incidentally I was working on a 6 year old 7604E1/4P NVR yesterday, adding a camera and that worked better than the K series. As one of the H265 cameras was causing "unsupported stream type" on that recorder, I needed to set all the cameras to H264, but could then choose to configure the screen to auto switch streams/or not. In this case I was able to leave an old 3MP mini dome (DS-2CD2132-I), a 2MP Darkfighter turret (DS-2CD2325FWD-I) and a 4MP AcuSense turret (DS-2CD2346G2-IU) all set to display the main stream in 4 x 4 multiscreen without issue.

I'm not sure whether the K series would work any better with regard to live view decoding if I were to use H264 rather than H265.

Thanks again, I've passed this info and been told that their R&D team is going to take a look at everything - I'll let you know what they say.

 

[Kyle]

So, my understanding of what Hik are claiming on this is that the design for this on the NVR firmware (of any size) now is as follows:

On live view, the NVR should show the mainstream for all cameras in both fullscreen and in a 4-screen split by default…
And it will only automatically switch to showing the substream when you switch to 3x3 (9 window divisions) or more.

This surprises me and of course isn't what you're seeing - it shows the substream in a 4-screen split until you go to fullscreen, and THEN shows all 4 main streams once you click back out (ergo failing with the "no resource" error).

And seems mad to me, but I guess explains:

when double clicking back to the 4 way split the NVR is attempting to keep all of the cameras showing the main stream which we know it is incapable of decoding. And so it fails, shows "no resource" and finally fathoms out after a short period that switching 2 of the cameras to their sub streams will bring it back within its decoding capabilities.........until next time we double click in the 4 way split and the issues return when switching back

…So I'm double-checking this is what they definitely mean is the intended design - If so, I'll point out that this needs to be changed on the 4-channel NVRs.

They've suggested enabling 'enhanced SVC mode' in the basic system settings might help, as this can increase what the NVR can decode.

But, they've said that they are looking into building the option to control what stream is shown automatically (when clicking out of fullscreen) in future FW, and will also fix the other two issues you mention in post #1 (and asked me to pass on their thanks again).

 

[JB1970]

So, my understanding of what Hik are claiming on this is that the design for this on the NVR firmware (of any size) now is as follows:

On live view, the NVR should show the mainstream for all cameras in both fullscreen and in a 4-screen split by default…
And it will only automatically switch to showing the substream when you switch to 3x3 (9 window divisions) or more.

This surprises me and of course isn't what you're seeing - it shows the substream in a 4-screen split until you go to fullscreen, and THEN shows all 4 main streams once you click back out (ergo failing with the "no resource" error).

And seems mad to me, but I guess explains:


…So I'm double-checking this is what they definitely mean is the intended design - If so, I'll point out that this needs to be changed on the 4-channel NVRs.

They've suggested enabling 'enhanced SVC mode' in the basic system settings might help, as this can increase what the NVR can decode.

But, they've said that they are looking into building the option to control what stream is shown automatically (when clicking out of fullscreen) in future FW, and will also fix the other two issues you mention in post #1 (and asked me to pass on their thanks again).

Thanks for the update @Kyle it's very much appreciated

it shows the substream in a 4-screen split until you go to fullscreen, and THEN shows all 4 main streams once you click back out (ergo failing with the "no resource" error).

It'll only show 4 sub streams if you force it by manually changing them in the lower toolbar in each window division. However exactly as you say - it "forgets" and reverts back to attempting the 4 x main stream which it can't handle.

As said the ancient firmware on the E series got around this by providing a choice between Main, Sub or Auto, not for the multiscreen as a whole, but for each individual window division. That would enable you to make the decision based on the resolution of the cameras installed. Lets say you have 4 x 1080P cameras - they could be left as main, 4 x 4MP cameras - they would be set to Auto or perhaps if one of the 4 was more important it could be left as main with the other 3 on Auto. However you look at it, giving the option to alter how or if the stream switches would mean that "no resource" would be eliminated - so long as the screen layout was correctly configured by the installer/end user to suit the number and resolution of the cameras fitted.

And it will only automatically switch to showing the substream when you switch to 3x3 (9 window divisions) or more.

That's correct but Hik fail to mention, that as the 4 channel recorder has different firmware to the 8 and 16 channel K series there is no 3 x 3 multiscreen available and so it's not possible to avoid the message without downgrading the cameras main stream!

They've suggested enabling 'enhanced SVC mode' in the basic system settings might help, as this can increase what the NVR can decode.

I've got one in stock for another installation, so I'll set it up on the bench with a few cameras over the weekend to see if I can get any improvement.

But, they've said that they are looking into building the option to control what stream is shown automatically (when clicking out of fullscreen) in future FW, and will also fix the other two issues you mention in post #1 (and asked me to pass on their thanks again).

That's good news. At the end of the day they've released an NVR that claims to be 4K capable, when actually while it's capable of recording at 4K it's only possible to view a fully populated live multiscreen if the cameras are 1080P. If they're unable to put those stream switching options in to the display setup menu as before, it would be better if we had an option to disable multiscreen view altogether when higher resolution cameras are being recorded.

 

[JB1970]

@Kyle Following some tests, I've resolved this now!

I've set up a brand new 7604 with three 4MP cameras connected (2 x 2346G2 AcuSense and 1 x 2347G1 ColorVu). The recorder came pre loaded with version 4.30.010. I initially left this version of firmware on and tested it before repeating the tests with version 4.30.085.

The issue is exactly the opposite of what they have said. Enhanced SVC mode does not alleviate the problem - it appears to be the cause of it. The 7604 has Enhanced SVC mode ON by default out of the box and this causes the "no resource" issue. Once switched OFF, toggling between 2 x 2 and full screen automatically switches between sub stream and main stream without any errors or intervention needed.

Now it may be that units delivered with a newer version of firmware have Enhanced SVC off by default - that I'm unable to check. However because it is switched on by default in 4.30.010 - any firmware update will respect the previous settings and so leave it switched on.

The zipped QuickTime movie shows the issue before and after. So after all has been said, there's nothing needed other than to be aware that that setting should be off not on by default.

PS: in case anyone is wondering - the cameras are still in their boxes hence the blurry mess!

 

[mtv]

@JB1970 I can confirm that SVC was on on my device as well, i upgraded from 4.30.010 automatically to 4.30.055, it was still on. As i have only 2 cams (ds-2cd2047gu-lu) yet, it didn’t gave the no resource yet, but the third is on his way, so to prevent myself, i switched svc off on the nvr. (via webbrowser, you can’t select this, only on nvr direct with screen attached). Switching it on, then a 4k remark will pop on, saying the device will have more capabilities reboot to activate It, i didn’t activate it. So from 2by2 screen now it showed indeed substream and double click will show mainstream, before that it all was mainstream into the 2by2. Funny though that via webbrowser you can select what it will start when put on live stream.

so thanks for looking into the svc setting.

i’ll wait to upgrade (it still shows no online update available) to 4.30.085 for release notes to see the changes, hoping it will show some of the min/max settings for the smart events on nvr level to support while that now is only on cam level.

 

[Kyle]

Thanks both

I've told Hik that enhanced SVC does more harm than good on the 4 channel units, and this should not be enabled by default in the next update - and that turning it off strangely fixes the issue, but it makes no sense to allow the smaller NVRs to show 4x mainstreams in 2x2 view.

But they're definitely looking into a way to offer more control on the streams displayed in each view, much like:

Live view on local monitor stream switch. Many moons ago you could set up each window division of a live screen view as Sub Stream, Main Stream or Auto. It would work as follows:
- Set to sub stream it would keep showing the sub stream whether in multiscreen or when double clicked to maximise
- Set to main stream it would keep showing the main stream whether in multiscreen or when double clicked to maximise
- Set to Auto it would display the sub stream when in multiscreen view but automatically change to main stream when maximised with a double click and revert back to sub stream when returning to multiscreen.

 

[JB1970]

Thanks again @Kyle

In many cases as you say there may be no need for main stream in 2x2 view, certainly not on a 22" monitor, however if you've got a big ass 75" Samsung like me it's still useful! (thankfully I have I series with 9 cameras at home so don't have the issue). Either way it will be good to have the choice available.

 

[JB1970]

Sorry to hear it, that's typical I've passed on your update - thanks.

Have you managed to check if this is still an issue on v4.30.085?

@Kyle - I've just installed another one today with 4.30.085 and can confirm that the issue remains. While logged in as admin on the local GUI, creating a new user creates a "Guest" level user and it is not possible to edit permissions for that user without logging in via the web browser to make the necessary changes. I don't think a Guest level user can even perform a local shutdown.

 

[Kyle]

Thanks for the update on that @JB1970 - I'll pass it on to Hik and let you know their response.

 

[Kyle]

Sorry for the delay with this update @JB1970 - after a lot of back and forth, Hik have explained that the ability to edit user permissions locally on the NVR was deliberately removed on the V4 firmware on all K-Series models...

They say that this is to simplify the interface / improve performance, and that as the web interface and iVMS-4200 are more popular, they didn't feel it was necessary to keep this feature on the local GUI.

I've said that it would still be nice to have the ability to manage the user permissions locally, as in many cases (for installers / integrators), it is the simplest way to configure the NVR.