Double images in all cameras? Ghosting?

[matias2205]

Hello there!
I'm new here!
I saw some people having a similar issue but I tried several things and didn't work any of those.
I have double images, in all my cameras. I have 7 new cameras installed and all of them are having this issue.
Some assumptions.
- Cameras are not the reason (Because I have bought 7 and all of them are having the same issue)
- Distance of the cameras with the DVR neither. Because some of them are really close to the DVR.
- DVR?
- Configuration?
- Cables?

I see this issues even in the TV connected to the DVR. And also on the Hikvision application.

 

[Dan]

Hi @matias2205

What camera and DVR models do you have?

 

[matias2205]

Hi Dan! Sorry I should've put those details before.
DVR: IDS-7208HUHI-M1/FA
Cameras: DS-2CE70KF0T-MFS

 

[Dan]

Thanks,

Have you tried moving one of the cameras close to the DVR and connecting it with short/bought/manufactured co-ax cable and power cable?

Do you still see the double image if you use a factory-made/factory-terminated co-ax cable?

 

[matias2205]

Hi Dan! I didn't try that yet. But I don't have short/bought manufactured co-ax cable . May I buy one just to try that.

 

[Dan]

Yes, buy yourself a short factory-made co-ax cable and see if the image from the camera you connect to that cable improves at all.

 

[matias2205]

I will do that Dan and let you know.
Another question, I have all UTP cat6 cables. Is that too may be limiting FPS in my DVR?
I have this DVR. Hikvision ids-7208huhi-m1/s. and I can't increase the FPS in the main stream no more than 12fps. And 20fps maximum to the sub-stream. How can I achive at least 25fps o 30fps. Since the cameras support 30fps.
Camera model is: DS-2CE70KF0T-MFS

 

[Dan]

Hi @matias2205

When you say "all UTP cat6 cables" do you mean that everything in your system is connected with Cat 6 cable? Does that mean you are connecting the cameras over Cat6 cable using Baluns at each end to convert back to a co-ax connection?

I think the recording limitations of the DVR is why you can't go above 12fps, the DVR specs state that it only supports recording at "3K@12 fps" and there doesn't appear to be any resolution you can set the cameras to get that higher frame rate.

 

[matias2205]

Exactly Dan, I'm using all UTP cat6 cables for everything power and "data". using baluns at each end to convert co-ax. Is that an issue?
My god, regarding the DVR. Is there a DVR that allow to record like 25/30fps? I thought the DVR I bought was good enough

 

[Dan]

Thanks @matias2205

Yes, the Baluns could be the issue as the termination of the wiring into each Balun could be loose or incorrect. Try sourcing a factory-made cable to test and will confirm if the Cat6 & Baluns is the problem.

We only work with IP cameras & NVRs so our knowledge of Hikvision's analog products is limited, from a quick look at the Hikvision website it looks like the iDS-7208HTHI-M2/S DVR supports 3K@20fps.

 

[JB1970]

Is there a DVR that allow to record like 25/30fps? I thought the DVR I bought was good enough

When you look at the DVR specifications they detail the maximum resolution cameras they will support 'up to 2mp, 'up to 5mp' etc. This used to be easy:

HQHI - up to 2MP
HUHI - up to 5MP
HTHI - up to 8MP

But they would only do 12FPS if you were using the highest resolution cameras that it would support. A HUHI would do up to 5MP but at only 12FPS, you'd need a HTHI for a higher frame rate with 5MP cameras.

It's changed a bit now and the newer HUHI models will do up to 8MP cameras and as @Dan has mentioned, the HTHI M is the higher specified model.

With regard to your ghosting issue....

If you were using the CAT6 with a PoC (power over coax) DVR and both the power and video were being sent/received in a single pair in the wiring - that's no problem, even when you have multiple cameras in one cable. However yours is a non PoC DVR so you'll be sending the 12V DC power up one pair and receiving the video back on another. There are two causes of your problem:

1 - Are you using an individual CAT6 to each camera? If not you'll get ghosting when there is more than one video signal in the same cable.

2 - Are the cameras connected to a common power supply? If so, that can cause an issue. Try separate power adaptors per camera as Hikvision recommend for many of their models.

 

[matias2205]

Thank you so much Dan and JB1970 for your answers!
I didn't get so much about the DVR part. My question would be, do I have to change my DVR to get 30FPS in all cameras or something like that? Sorry to ask that.
About the ghosting issue:
1 - Yes, I'm using an individual CAT6 for each camera. So each camera has its own CAT6 cable.
2 - Big yes, right now I have 4 power supply and I'm splitting those among 7 cameras. SO, do I need to use an individual power supply for each camera?
Is the best have individual power supply? Or can I use one that is to connect multiple ones? (attached pic)
These are the ones that I'm using right now: (Attached new pic)
Input: 240v 50/60hz
Output: 12v 4AMP

Thanks!

 

[JB1970]

I have to change my DVR to get 30FPS in all cameras or something like that? Sorry to ask that.

If you feel you need full frame rate (25/30FPS) then yes.

right now I have 4 power supply and I'm splitting those among 7 cameras. SO, do I need to use an individual power supply for each camera?
Is the best have individual power supply? Or can I use one that is to connect multiple ones?

You can use a single power supply that has separate individual outputs or individual plug in adapters. First you want to prove that it's the single power supply that's the cause of your issue. Temporarily disconnect everything and connect just one camera BNC to the DVR and just that camera to the power supply then check the image. If it's ok go through them all like that - one at a time. If any of them while connected on their own have a bad image, you may have a ground fault. Leave that one disconnected as the fault will pass to the other cameras through the DVR BNC panel. If they're all ok individually, then reconnect all the BNCs and just any one camera to the power supply - the image should be fine. If the bad images return once you start adding the rest of the cameras to the power supply, you know that's where the issue lies.

One more thing....I hate to state the obvious but you have checked that each camera is connected to one pair of the CAT6? It would be difficult to get that wrong with CAT6 due to the construction of the cable.

 

[matias2205]

One more questions regarding Cat6 cables. Since I'm using one cat6 cable per camera, I'm using all the filaments (Because I think is better, maybe that's the issue?)
Attaching new pic explaining. But instead of using one filament for positive and one for negative, I'm using a pair for positive and a pair for negative. Same for video. So I'm using all the cable's filaments. Is that ok?

 

[JB1970]

One more questions regarding Cat6 cables. Since I'm using one cat6 cable per camera, I'm using all the filaments (Because I think is better, maybe that's the issue?)
Attaching new pic explaining. But instead of using one filament for positive and one for negative, I'm using a pair for positive and a pair for negative. Same for video. So I'm using all the cable's filaments. Is that ok?

That will be your issue. It's fine to do that for the power (in fact depending on cable length it's advised as it will reduce volt drop) but not for the video pair. The pair that goes into your balun at each end must be one pair (grn/whi for example).

Forget everything to do with changing power supplies until you've rectified that. The video cannot go between pairs. There's a good chance once you put that right, the images will clear without the need to separate the power supplies.

 

[matias2205]

Well, I just removed the extra pair of the video balun, and look the difference.
IMG 7641 is a recording. And IMG 7642 is present.
I think I can still see some ghosting. But I think that removed 80/90% of the issue .
I can try the power supplies if that removes it entirely but I need to remove the extra pair of all baluns of all the cameras now on the video

UPDATE:
Uploaded two more images, same camera, look at the DirectTV logo! Is amazing.

 

[JB1970]

Well, I just removed the extra pair of the video balun, and look the difference.
IMG 7641 is a recording. And IMG 7642 is present.
I think I can still see some ghosting. But I think that removed 80/90% of the issue .
I can try the power supplies if that removes it entirely but I need to remove the extra pair of all baluns of all the cameras now on the video

Correct, put the other cameras right first. Once you've done that, pick a camera you think you can see ghosting on and while viewing it live, unplug the connections (just the power will do) to the other cameras to see if it clears.

 

[matias2205]

Thanks ! I will do that. First I need to unplug that extra pair from the video from all cameras and then start playing around with the power supply.
I think the only thing missing to make me happy about this setup is the FPS . I can't live without 25fps at least hahah. I see 15/20 and is too poor quantity of frames for me.

 

[cymruchris]

Thanks ! I will do that. First I need to unlug that extra pair from the video from all cameras and then start playing around with the power supply.
I think the only thing missing to make me happy about this setup is the FPS . I can't live without 25fps at least hahah. I see 15/20 and is too poor quantity of frames for me.

Remember it's a security system rather than a 4k movie camera. It's purpose (usually) is to capture wrongdoings, rather than marvel at the fluency of the image. If something happens - even at 10 frames per second you're going to get enough detail of what happened and some good still images. Yes - 50 frames per second is lovely - but for the 'Wanted' poster - you only need one.

 

[matias2205]

Ok guys! Quick update . So I went through all the cameras, and just put one pair for video. I left 2 pair for power and 1 pair left just for backup. And look at that. I think it fixed the ghosting issue about 90%. (Attached before and now)

I had another question. One camera, when the light is on, starts having a super bad image (Attached screenshots at night with light, without light and day) as you can see, day image is great and night too. But when the light is on, the image is really bad. I can guess is because increase on amps demanding.
Does it mean that the power supply doesn't have enough amps?

I have these specs about power supply:
Input: 240v 50/60hz
Output: 12v 4AMP

Picture attached in a previous message.
But I doubt about those 4AMP if they really "are" 4amp.

Currently I have 4 of those power supplies splitted among the 7 cameras. Shoud I buy 3 more to have one power supply per camera?
Or the best would be to but a super big one to connect everything there?

Thanks guys!