ColorVu G2 - G3 vs G5 platform model availability

[JB1970]

I know that this has been discussed elsewhere on the site but I thought I'd have a rant about a conversation I've just had with my supplier.

Start Rant

The current DS-2CD2347G2 cameras that run on G3 platform firmware are not receiving further firmware updates from Hikvision. They have been superseded by a C revision model that uses G5 platform firmware. That fact is noted on a Hikvision spreadsheet on their website. There's also some information regarding the benefits and operational differences between a model running G3 and one running G5 platform firmware in another document.

I need around 10 for an upgrade I'm doing. As it's not clear what my supplier is offering I contacted their technical support department with my query. It went a little like this:

"I understand there's a new hardware revision - will I receive the old G3 platform camera or the new G3 platform camera when I place my order"
Response - "we can't say - you could get either depending on what we have in stock/have been sent by Hikvision"

"I don't want to place an order unless I'm ordering the new model. Why would I want to buy something new that is considered end of line and will not receive further updates"
Response - "Understood but the part number is the same and the revision is not marked on the box, so we don't know whether it's the new one or not"

"Even if the revision isn't indicated on the box, the firmware version loaded by Hikvision is. As they use different firmware and the G5 is only up to to 5.5.114 whereas the G3 is at 5.5.160, it should be crystal clear which version is in the box without breaking the security seal or powering it up"
Response - "We can't say for sure what you'll receive, we always order the latest from Hikvision but may still have stock of the old model"

Bearing in mind that I can return an order unused for a full refund it seems a little ridiculous that I could order them, read the label on the box and return them immediately for a refund if they're not the new model then repeat that process ad infinitum until I get what I want.

End Rant

 

[Phil]

This, times 100 product lines!!
Same part code - plus a 'C' (probably).
Different features.
Different firmware.
Different forever - adds support complexity for the future!

 

[JB1970]

This, times 100 product lines!!
Same part code - plus a 'C' (probably).
Different features.
Different firmware.
Different forever - adds support complexity for the future!

So it turns out that Hikvision no longer put the firmware version on the label. There is however a small C on there - DVS found that after first breaking the seals on 5 boxes! After my rant with two separate suppliers I'm getting what I asked for!

 

[user7364]

In my opinion no one should buy models which are affected by this G3/G5 bullshit.

Hikvision should first start to give an answer WHY they decide to act like this.
- is there a design fault?
- is there a problem with chip delivery?
....

According to some users in the other thread it seems that there are firmware bugs on G5 which can be "bugs" or due limited CPU power...
Also why is hikvision releasing a buggy device ?

There is something going on... and with these unknown variables no one should buy it at the moment.

Some models where released end 2019, on real market early 2020 , now EOL ? haha...
Now they make a lottery and put no C on the box... wow...

If the cpu power is now limited, then goodbye ... its not really fixable via firmware ... they will fix it via "lower bitrate if needed" ... which gives you a shitty image.

There will be problems for sellers and installers... i would not want to be in their shoes...

 

[JB1970]

- is there a design fault?

That is what concerns me - there's no information as to why they're terminating that firmware so soon - the suppliers aren't aware. The G1 still gets updates now - albeit not very often.

There is something going on... and with these unknown variables no one should buy it at the moment.

Unfortunately the "pure" AcuSense 2xx6 models have gone to the G5 platform, along with the 2xx7 ColorVu's and all of the new 6MP models and the ColorVu LiveGuard model will be G5 platform. So for ColorVu and AcuSense there's no choice (without using another manufacturer)

Now they make a lottery and put no C on the box... wow...

So it turns out the firmware version is no longer on the box label but the letter C is and it's fairly obvious as shown. I got 10 this afternoon:

Regarding bitrate, one of the items of interest on the release notes for G5 firmware version 5.5.111 which is the earliest G5 firmware is regarding the night bit rate. It states that G3 will maintain the same bit rate as configured, whereas G5 will ignore the configured bitrate and it will be double for night. As ever it's written in chinglish so doesn't make a lot of sense - "the overall configuration is in line with the configuration" errrr what?

Strangely - while the G3 firmware had the ability to activate the LED on alarm, I've had to update the G5 camera with newer firmware to get that feature.

 

[user7364]

So it turns out the firmware version is no longer on the box label but the letter C is and it's fairly obvious as shown:

Ah ok. Then it was a misunderstanding... the C on box is also described in the notes, i thought that they now removed it and you will get G3/G5 randomly

whereas G5 will ignore the configured bitrate and it will be double for night. As ever it's written in chinglish so doesn't make a lot of sense.

Ah ok... then they mean half instead of double...

Hardcoded Bitrate/fps/iframe changes are complete BS ! No one wants that...
So you are running the camera in 20k bitrate and then they double it to 40k ? hahhaa....
no way.. they double the iframe rate to reduce cpu load ........................

REOLINK is doing that do get a crystal clear nightview. Thatswhy their shitty cameras wont work with blueiris and the newer ones miss motion even with their nvr...


Poor customers who get these G5 colorvu models...

 

[JB1970]

I'll be fitting some on Friday so will see if I can see a discernible difference (positive or negative) in image quality between the two.

 

[user7364]

yeah... please report what they change in night...
and if the sd-recordbug etc. is true from other thread

it doesnt matter what the image look... changes in bitrate/iframe/fps can lead to problems in third party applications... but if they want to go reolink... good that i have only dahua cameras

 

[fullboogie]

Now you know why I'm buying the G1 versions of the 2347 and replacing all my 2355's and 2385's. Lots of them still available in the US and, despite some feature issues, they are still the best low light cams we can get.

 

[alexf40]

Wish I knew about this earlier, I have a week old non C version just fitted. DS-2CD2347G2-LU running V5.5.160

 

[alexf40]

Well this is what they came back to me with:

The chip without C is the orthodox Haisi chip, while the chip with C is the one that Haisi can't get rid of. After that, Haicahn has to change the hardware material, and the one without C is better than the one with C

C is the material code of the factory, which has no other meaning

 

[JB1970]

Well this is what they came back to me with:

That doesn’t sound good. I wasted a morning trying to get further information and to ensure I got the “new” model. I’ll have to see what the image is like. I’ve got one G3 4mm version recently and have now got a number of G5s new in 4mm. I might have to attempt a side by side demo.

 

[alexf40]

I'm always amazed at how bad Hikvision are at support and communication. Still unsure why they would stop firmware updates for the non C version, assume there's no future for the same component due to covid.

 

[user7364]

please dont post image / footage...
you cannot say what is going on from "some footage" or still images... it doesnt matter how it looks.. they might trick you with "better" or "same" visible quality
who is looking a stream 24/7 ? on some scenes you might have missing motion or blurry image due to changes of their hardcoded bullshit

it is important to know if they change fps/bitrate/iframe rate ...... so you set your settings CBR 16k, iframe 15, fps 15 ... and post a video like this .... would be helpful:

Watch Reolink | Streamable

Watch "Reolink" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[JB1970]

please dont post image / footage...
you cannot say what is going on from "some footage" or still images... it doesnt matter how it looks..

it is important to know if they change fps/bitrate/iframe rate ...... so you set your settings CBR 16k, iframe 15, fps 15 ... and post a video like this .... would be helpful:

Watch Reolink | Streamable

Watch "Reolink" on Streamable.

streamable.com

I'll just be having a look for my own opinion. But for me it does matter how it looks! I always use VBR anyway and with the current models the bitrate is known to burst well beyond what you cap it at depending on both the quality setting and clear/smooth slider in the camera settings.

 

[user7364]

lol
why do you care about bitrate changes above if you run them in vbr anyway...

with hardcoded rubbish in firmware many companies like reolink tries to trick you with "good looking image" , so an uninformed customer think.,.. wow what a good looking image... this is the typical cctv chinese scam. that is what companies like foscam, reolink, arlo ................ does.

these are (semi) professional cameras,... sure you can run them in auto mode, but who pay the hikvision/dahua plus to get the reolink quality ? you can buy reolink at 1/3 of the price of hikvision.

 

[spirch]

that mess is sad, i want to change one of my camera for a color vu but it's hard for me to commit to buy one with all that uncertainty

hopefully thing get clearer / better soon (in less than 2 months) otherwise it will go to next year, 10+ months

 

[fullboogie]

lol
why do you care about bitrate changes above if you run them in vbr anyway...

with hardcoded bullshit in firmware many companies like reolink tries to trick you with "good looking image" , so an uninformed customer think.,.. wow what a good looking image... this is the typical cctv chinese scam. that is what companies like foscam, reolink, arlo ................ does.

these are (semi) professional cameras,... sure you can run them in auto mode, but who pay the hikvision/dahua plus to get the reolink quality ? you can buy reolink at 1/3 of the price of hikvision.

Maybe you ought to stick to the other website that you frequent so often. You're incoherent [expletives deleted by forum moderator]

 

[Phil]

OK, let me add a bit of context please:
There is a massive shortage of chips / semiconductors.
I was surprised to hear on the radio this morning that modern cars use 1,500 chips on average!
The impact on the Auto trade has been huge due to "the global microchip shortage":
Car production in July hits lowest level since 1956

The manufacturers in the CCTV sector have been affected badly too.
Even THE most rock-steady brands such as Axis are suffering from component shortages, resulting in an 'out-of-stock' situation for MANY product lines, with often very long lead-times now being quoted e.g. 12 weeks or more.

This extends to general networking devices too, shortages and long lead-times are very common right now.

This scarcity of semiconductors will have prompted camera manufacturers such as Hikvision to select and use new chip models, those that they can be sure that they can secure the massive quantities that they need (bear in mind that Hikvision is THE world's largest CCTV manufacturer, they produce millions of cameras!).
This chip change means re-engineering.
This takes time to complete and settle.
Agreed, their comms is poor.
This leaves us unsure / ill-informed.
However, with each passing day, more equipment ships to users, and so far we are not receiving reports of significant issues.
We feed information back to Hikvision.
Their Support teams feed back to HQ R&D.
It is likely that there will be some bugs, I anticipate firmware iterations to resolve those.

I don't know the source or veracity of the statement that there will be no further firmware updates to earlier products.
NB - We have this week seen a significant firmware update to the K-series NVRs.

We ARE seeing a 'C' clearly marked on new product boxes.
Some obfuscation may be caused by the distribution channel not wanting to 'be caught' with former models, which may become hard to sell.

Some of our manufacturers e.g. Hanwha, Vivotek and GeoVision are going further and switching to semiconductors and sources that comply with the recently introduced NDAA regulations in the USA.
Doing that increases the challenge!
Vivotek for instance are re-engineering their NVR range based upon new semiconductors, they advised me months ago that the new NVR models would take about a year to develop. They used this handy analogy - "It's as if your R&D team have spent all their working lives developing X-Box solutions, and now we've asked them to switch to Sony's PlayStation platform instead!" - they have to re-learn a new system, perhaps use new development tools, and then develop a new leading-edge device.

I wish the information from Hikvision was better.
In the absence of that, let's field test and judge the products by their performance.
Then feed back any issues.
All users & purchasers have a right of return.
Hik's products have an excellent warranty.
This is very likely a change that they've been forced into.

It's not ideal.
Once again I am grateful and indebted to forum members such as @JB1970 who give their time, knowledge and experience so freely - thanks all.

 

[JB1970]

I don't know the source or veracity of the statement that there will be no further firmware updates to earlier products.

I think it only relates to ColorVu and AcuSense G3 models and not any other older models. The information I mentioned was from a Hikvision spreadsheet on the EU portal (G3 G5 model correspondence table). The notes in the cell at the top of the top of that sheet indicate that 5.5.160 will be the last version of firmware (though they recently update that version with a differently dated build). The spreadsheet is the second file from the bottom on this page:

DOWNLOAD EU PORTAL

www.hikvisioneurope.com

We ARE seeing a 'C' clearly marked on new product boxes.

Yeah it's actually very clear and to the right of the part code so there shouldn't be any confusion.