First Time Buyer

[neonplanet40]

Hi folks,

Currently, we are looking at installing CCTV around our house. I would be keen on any help you might have.

Purpose:

• To keep an eye on the property while away and also act as a deterrent
• My inner geek likes tech
• If anything was to happen at the house, have video evidence which police could use.

For the cameras: We are thinking off:

1. 4-5 outdoor cameras
2. Motion sensing
3. Good quality Nightvision
4. Good picture quality
5. Able to withstand Scottish weather
6. Audio capability (to hear what is being recorded?) - this isn't essential really. Just a want .

What we want from the system, overall:

• We want to be able to connect to the cameras via our mobile phones, computers etc and view live videos and stored videos.
• We would rather they were wired, as wireless (if my Ring is anything to go by) isn't the best and highly dependant on wifi signal, etc. So maybe PoE?
• We would need a storage device of some kind for these to record to. I have a Synology but you need to pay for licenses etc. So I would prefer to have a separate NVR or similar with maybe a WD Purple x2 or similar in it. But I guess it is this device that would make my above requirements possible?

We would most likely get a professional to install the cameras and cabling etc.

I would be keen to hear people's advice.

Thank you!

 

[Dan]

For cameras, we would recommend the 2345 4MP Darkfighter Turret cameras - Hikvision DS-2CD2345FWD-I 4MP Turret Network Camera - or the 2385G1 8MP/4K Darkfighter Turrets - Hikvision DS-2CD2385G1-I 8MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera

These cameras are IP67 rated and so should work in even the most extreme weather conditions, they don't have microphones or support audio but for outdoor cameras, especially ones in extreme weather, the audio will never function as well as you want it to because wind and rain hitting the cameras will cause all sorts of interference and noise that will make it impossible to hear any noises you actually want to hear.

For the NVR, we would recommend a 7604 4-channel NVR - Hikvision DS-7604NI-K1-4P(B) | 4 Channel Network Video Recorder - this NVR only supports up to 4 cameras so if you do want to go beyond 4 cameras then you will need to go up to an 8-channel NVR - Hikvision DS-7608NI-I2-8P 8 Channel Network Video Recorder

For the HDDs, we would recommend roughly 1TB per camera, so 4-6TB will be enough - Western Digital Purple | 1-12 TB SATA 6 GB\/s NAS Hard Drive

 

[neonplanet40]

Thank you for your informative reply. I currently have a Synology DS2415+. Could I use this an the nvr instead? Or would I miss out on a lot of features?

Also, the front and rear of my house is around 11.5m in width. I would be keen to put a camera roughly in the middle which would give a wide field of view and the same again in distance. Would these cameras work for that or would I be better getting the ones mentioned above for the sides of the house and then two different ones for the front and rear of the property?

Thank you for your help!

 

[Dan]

Thank you for your informative reply. I currently have a Synology DS2415+. Could I use this an the nvr instead? Or would I miss out on a lot of features?

You can connect Hikvision cameras to Synology Surveillance Station software, there will be some limitations when it comes to recording by some of the unique Hikvision Smart features, but you can use basic motion detection which is the main feature you require. As you mentioned earlier if you want to record to Synology you will need cameras licenses, the Surveillance Station software comes with 2 free licenses so if you wanted 4 or 5 cameras you would need another 2-3 licenses.

1 camera license - Synology 1 Camera License Pack
4 camera licenses - Synology 4 Camera License Pack

 

[neonplanet40]

Thank you. What about the cameras for front and back - using the width mentioned above? I am unsure if I would need a wider lens etc?

I will need to look more at what I would miss out by using the Synology over the Hikvision NRV. I will google to see if there is a comparison anywhere.

 

[Dan]

This video will help you work out the focal length you need, it is not exactly the model I have recommended above but is a good example of the coverage you would get from a 6mm lens, the garden is roughly 10m wide from fence to fence, it is just under 20m to the top of the path where it meets the grass, and the camera is mounted 4m high.

Smart features (face detection, line crossing, intrusion detection, etc...) and H.265+ CODEC are the main things that you won't be able to use when connected to a Synology NAS, but these are not major issues for a small 4-5 camera system. As the cameras will be connected to your local network you can still log directly into each camera and edit all the camera-specific video/image settings that you won't be able to control directly from the Synology software.

 

[neonplanet40]

Thank you for your help. I will check out the video!

 

[neonplanet40]

I think I am now more likely to go down the route of using my Synology. I will just add another 2 cameras licenses and get a PoE switch - such as the D-Link DGS-1100-08P.


However, I am unable to find any information on whether my DS2415+ will be up to scratch (CPU wise etc) to run the 4 cameras smoothly at their highest setting. It says it can support 40 cameras(?!) but I know I can take that with a pinch of salt. I will be adding a WD Purple and using it as a separate storage pool for the cameras only. So as not to mix it with my other 11 drives running as file storage.

Do you guys know any more about this? The only change I made with my DS2415+ is that I upgraded the ram to 8GB.

 

[Dan]

I think I am now more likely to go down the route of using my Synology. I will just add another 2 cameras licenses and get a PoE switch - such as the D-Link DGS-1100-08P.


However, I am unable to find any information on whether my DS2415+ will be up to scratch (CPU wise etc) to run the 4 cameras smoothly at their highest setting. It says it can support 40 cameras(?!) but I know I can take that with a pinch of salt. I will be adding a WD Purple and using it as a separate storage pool for the cameras only. So as not to mix it with my other 11 drives running as file storage.

Do you guys know any more about this? The only change I made with my DS2415+ is that I upgraded the ram to 8GB.

The limitations of the CPU are not something I know anything about but if the specs say up to 40 cameras can be supported then I think 4 or 5 cameras even at 8MP resolution shouldn't be a problem. The majority of the processing happens camera side and once it reaches the NAS it is already compressed so not as draining on the NAS' CPU power. If you want to look further into camera compatibility then you should look at Synology's own compatibility list - Surveillance Station IP Camera Support List | Synology Inc.

 

[neonplanet40]

I have another question (the more I read the more I have!).

These cameras will be around my house and 3 of the 4 will not be under a shelter. I am thinking of using the mounting wall bracket arm for those 3 cameras. However, is there anything I can get for them that will keep some of the weather off them (when really windy etc I guess there is nothing I can do).

I'm just curious about what can be attached to the bracket (DS-1273ZJ-140) that would aid with this?

On a side note, I guess these cameras will be fine in driving wind and rain + snow and frost? haha.

 

[Dan]

I have another question (the more I read the more I have!).

These cameras will be around my house and 3 of the 4 will not be under a shelter. I am thinking of using the mounting wall bracket arm for those 3 cameras. However, is there anything I can get for them that will keep some of the weather off them (when really windy etc I guess there is nothing I can do).

I'm just curious about what can be attached to the bracket (DS-1273ZJ-140) that would aid with this?

On a side note, I guess these cameras will be fine in driving wind and rain + snow and frost? haha.

Both the turret models I linked you to earlier are IP67-rated weatherproof which is pretty much the highest rating you can get. (there are a few specialist cameras with IP68 and above but these are expensive and designed for locations where water is constant or the camera is actually submerged a lot of the time)

There are no accessories for protecting the turret cameras, Hikvision does a rain shade but this only designed for their dome cameras as the image quality of dome cameras can suffer much more than any other model in heavy rain as the water runs across and collects on the dome.

The turrets are weatherproof, the connection between the camera and the bracket has a rubber seal and if any water does get past that the cameras also come with a weatherproof gasket that can be placed over the cameras RJ45 connection to stop any water reaching the network connection.

 

[Billylongpockets]

I have read the thread with great interest.
I have a question which l do hope no one minds me asking..Big apologies if they do.
On night time vision, will the cameras attract any spiders or cobwebs which could obscure the vision and will any droplets of rain quickly disperse..
Many Thanks
Billy

 

[Dan]

I have read the thread with great interest.
I have a question which l do hope no one minds me asking..Big apologies if they do.
On night time vision, will the cameras attract any spiders or cobwebs which could obscure the vision and will any droplets of rain quickly disperse..
Many Thanks
Billy

Both the reasons you mention above are in part why Turret cameras were introduced because rain and spiders use to be major problems for the tradition camera types. (e.g. Dome, bullets, box, etc..) With Turrets though the flat face lets the rain runoff and the separation of the IR LEDs and Lens behind different windows (with the newer G1 Turret models the IR are behind the anti-reflective black plastic that surrounds the lens) means that any spiders that do visit the camera they will sit over the IR LEDs but not obscure the lens. Also, the turrets feature no rain shade or overhang for the spiders to build webs from, but do be warry about where you mount them as some customers have mounted the turrets to soffits in tight corner spaces where the spiders can build their webs off the soffit and obscure the view. The best way to avoid this is to wall-mount or soffit mount the turrets but not in tight corners.

 

[Billylongpockets]

Nice one Dan...
Your time and knowledge in answering my question is much appreciated..
Thanks
Billy

 

[neonplanet40]

So, I think I have my last 2 questions!! Finally.....

I have decided to use an NVR to get all the features the cameras offer. Looking at NVR's - what is the differences between the following 2? It is only that 1 can support 4 cameras and another 8? Or is there more in it to do with hardware and software/features?

Hikvision DS-7608NI-K2-8P | 8 Channel and Hikvision DS-7604NI-K1-4P(B) | 4 Channel

And lastly, looking at lenses, I was thinking 2.8mm for the wider view, front and back of house. However, how well do the images zoom in to get detail when they are fitted to the soffits of a detached house? I.e number plates or other detail like a face? I know wider lenses can mean more blurry. But I was hoping that as the cameras are 4k - (2385G1 8MP/4K Darkfighter Turrets ), this would make up for that?

Thank you for your help

Mark

 

[neonplanet40]

Just a bump on my last questions, if anyone knows the answers?

 

[Dan]

So, I think I have my last 2 questions!! Finally.....

I have decided to use an NVR to get all the features the cameras offer. Looking at NVR's - what is the differences between the following 2? It is only that 1 can support 4 cameras and another 8? Or is there more in it to do with hardware and software/features?

Hikvision DS-7608NI-K2-8P | 8 Channel and Hikvision DS-7604NI-K1-4P(B) | 4 Channel

And lastly, looking at lenses, I was thinking 2.8mm for the wider view, front and back of house. However, how well do the images zoom in to get detail when they are fitted to the soffits of a detached house? I.e number plates or other detail like a face? I know wider lenses can mean more blurry. But I was hoping that as the cameras are 4k - (2385G1 8MP/4K Darkfighter Turrets ), this would make up for that?

Thank you for your help

Mark

Apologies for delay Mark,

Yes, the main difference between those models is the number of cameras they support - 4 cameras for the 7604 or 8 cameras for the 7608 - the other small difference is that the 7608 is a K2 model which means it supports 2 x HDDs rather than the 1 HDD that the 7604 supports.

In terms of focal length, the wider you go the lower your pixel density gets and the more pixelated small details in the scene become. (e.g. faces, number plates, etc...) We often say that the 2.8mm lens, when used to cover a large area, will only give you coverage of movement & activity within the scene and that if you want greater detail to go down to a 4mm or 6mm lens that only covers the area where you want to record the most detail. (e.g. front doors, driveways, pathways, etc...) You will definitely see more detail with a 2.8mm lens on a 4K camera than 2MP or 4MP camera simply because there are a greater number of pixels and so the pixel density is not so stretched out, but still to get the best images of small details like faces and number plates we would recommend a smaller focal length.

This forum post on different focal lengths will give you an idea of the loss of detail you get as the FoV gets wider.