New to this forum and CCTV

[Pablo56]

Hi. I have been looking at a CCTV system on Amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SANNCE-Wireless-Recorder-Security-Wheather/dp/B06VTHXDY7/ref=sr_1_omk_4?crid=2RIFGGJKKHWBD&keywords=wireless+cctv&qid=1666423416&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI2LjUzIiwicXNhIjoiNi41MCIsInFzcCI6IjUuODIifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=wireless+cctv%2Caps%2C95&sr=8-4

What I was thinking was, if I bought 2 of these, I would have 8 cameras. I would also have 2 recorders. So if a burglar decided to steel the recorder having seen the cameras (inside), there would be a second recorder. A backup. I would imagine that each recorder would not know or care about the other. I would get 2 emails instead of one.

SECOND. If I am looking at it remotely on a laptop, would it be easy to recorded the incident on the laptop or is it for viewing purposes on a web browser. I just want to be ULTRA SECURE.

Thanks. Desmond.

 

[cymruchris]

I'll be brutally blunt with you, and it might not be what you want to hear - but it's a fairly basic system built to a budget (a very low budget) - and the longevity of the system can be demonstrated by reading through the multiple one and two star reviews.

Yes it's a camera system, yes you'll get four pictures, but as to how long it'll last is anyone's guess. (And try getting a refund from Amazon after 6 months - you'll be lucky!)

My early experience of buying these kinds of systems on Amazon for home use was disastrous.

- The cameras often disconnected/froze - not much use if there's a crime going on.
- Not much control over camera settings (i.e. shutter speeds).
- Over time they leaked water causing them to fail.
- Others lost their colour. Some turned purple.
- The apps were horrendous.
- The picture quality wasn't as good as was indicated.
- When they say it's a 5mp recorder - that's a total of 5mp across 4 cameras, not 5mp per camera.

I soon learned that if I wanted a decent system, I'd need to spend a bit more.

Many users (but not all) across this forum are experienced in the regular branded security such as Hikvision and Dahua to name but two. For £179.99 you won't get a network video recorder and 4 cameras at that price point.

Wifi cameras do have a habit of being pretty unreliable (again talking from experience) - the best systems (at the budget end of the market) are those that are cabled in permanently.

It really depends on your budget - if the £180 price point is about the maximum you want to put in, it'll give you a camera system, but it might not last long, and over time you'll likely be fairly frustrated.

I'm sure others can add more to the questions you've asked - but if you're going to go for some cameras - go for the best ones your budget allows for. Of course any camera is better than no camera - but if something happens and you need to see who did it - you won't be very happy if you don't get the detail you need or expect to try and identify the perpetrator.

 

[Pablo56]

Okay thanks. What would you recommend for a reasonably priced but a good system. I live in the UK. I live in a flat and don't have any Vincent van Gogh or Leonardo da Vinci.

I have seen some UK council estates and they are black and white low quality. probably of the videcon tube type. They were plugged into a mini transmitter inside and could be picked up by an analogue UHF TV. No video recording facility.

Just seen this wired system £229

Error 410 | Screwfix

Thousands of products at low trade prices | FREE next day delivery available | 30 day money back guarantee on all orders.

www.screwfix.com

No Mention of Remote viewing or recording.

 

[Pablo56]

This one has audio and uses an ethernet cable to the recorder. Supplies power as well.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Megapixels...3MCIsInFzcCI6IjQuMjkifQ==&sr=8-18-spons&psc=1

 

[cymruchris]

Both of the items you've linked are pretty much the same as my original reply - yes they're camera systems, but you'll likely be disappointed by their performance, access and longevity.

You say you live in a flat - do you have permission from the freeholder to mount cameras on the external areas of your building? If not - that's where I'd start - to ensure you physically are permitted to do so. (You wouldn't want an order to remove them later and an order to repair the damage caused from drilling holes here and there).

If permission to fit isn't a problem - what are you trying to achieve with your camera system?

Do you only need day-time vision? Or good night-time vision?

How much light is there around your property at night? Are there streetlights on all night? Or is it almost pure darkness once night has fallen?

There are many different types of cameras and focal lengths to consider depending on what you want see/record.

The cameras you've linked are bullet style, but there are also domes and turrets - each have their own advantages and disadvantages.

Many cameras have a focal length of 2.8mm (many of the budget brands on Amazon do) which gives a wide angle image - so you get a lot of area covered - but when you zoom, you don't get the detail you sometimes need.

There are then 4mm cameras and beyond which have a narrower field of view, but have the benefit of seeing things a little closer and getting more detail.

Realistically to get a decent system that's going to be more likely to last the course, and give you easy access, better reliability and stability - I'd say for a four camera POE system on a DIY install you'd need to budget about £600 including some network cable and a tool to join the cables up (but you'd need to have a basic understanding of networks and the ability to put together your own network cables and have a fair understanding on how to set up cameras for their best performance)

That might be more than you're prepared to spend which is understandable - but you'd likely not find anyone on the forum that would actively recommend a full system of recorder and cameras for £200 from an unheard of brand. (Swann is known - but is a closed ecosystem - and again not high in the reliability and longevity stakes). Another brand that often gets mentioned is Reolink - but again that's an Amazon special.

 

[Pablo56]

Thanks, I will be living away for weeks on end so would like to see remotely and an email or SMS. I have heard that there is PC software available for recording.

No problem with installation. I could do with night vision with IR lights. The area is a quiet residential area so just basic piece of mind. Could go to £600 at a push. £400 would be ok.

The cameras would only need to focus on 2-6 meters top. These ones come with cameras anyway. I have seen in pubs on the wall very small cameras only about 60 mm in diameter. Never found any on line. Covert would be nicer.

I am an it guy and knowledgeable with RJ45 cabling. One of the systems was RJ45 and claimed sound recording and I was told that cabled is better than wi-fi but this one states RJ45.

The area is quiet and it's a ground floor flat.

Any makes / models of more professional ones?


*******
Found this on the internet
Among the top worldwide most popular CCTV brands are:
Hikvision.
Dahua.
Axis.
Hanwha Techwin.
IDIS.
Honeywell.

Hilook by Hikvision - 5MP 4 Channel IP CCTV Camera Kit Builder

Hilook by Hikvision - 5MP 4 Channel IP CCTV Camera Kit Builder: 4 Channel IP kits > HD IP CCTV Systems > HD IP CCTV Systems

www.cctvhut.co.uk

 

[cymruchris]

You'd likely need a decent NVR with 4 x POE channels - NVR's don't come with hard drives as standard, so you'd need to factor one of those in as well - and to use a surveillance drive rather than a normal hard drive.

My own experience is with Hikvision - others might have further recommendations of other brands.

No brand is 'perfect' unless you're spending serious money, but Hikvision tends to give decent £ for £ value, decent reliability, decent performance with the odd glitch, but nothing that can't be overcome.

You've linked to a Hilook system - that's the budget brand from Hikvision - and will be better than the Amazon links you were originally looking at, but may not have all the features you'd find on a full-blown Hikvision system. The Amazon products you've been looking at are like a 20 year old Lada or Skoda, the Hi-look products are like a 6 year old Ford Fiesta, the Hikvision products I've listed are more like a recent BMW 3 series, but there are of course plenty of camera systems that are between Audi Q7's and R8's. On a forum like this you won't get any recommendations for the Lada or the Skoda - not many would go for the Ford Fiesta - most would plump for a 3 series BMW or above. But at the end of the day - a camera system is a camera system - you pay your money - you take your choice

This would be more likely along the lines of my own recommendations based on what you've stated you wanted - comes to about £550 excluding VAT - with the basic tools needed for building your cables. The cable of course needs to be external grade if it's going to pass through a wall or window and be exposed to the elements. I've spec'd a 1tb drive. You might need additional brackets for the cameras depending on where you're mounting them and to what. These are typically £15-20 a piece.

Various suppliers are out there - but not all will directly supply an end user - so you might not be able to find the exact prices you see here:

You'll also find that if you're buying direct from a wholesaler - you won't necessarily get the same support you would as a consumer buying something from Currys. If you can't work out how to make it work, although most suppliers will help with fault finding - they won't baby walk you through a full install. From what you've said, you're confident with IT, networks and cables - so you should be in a better position than most in terms of people that want to fit their own system. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Pablo56]

Well if this is a budget system from a top company then that would be perfect for me.

Does this not have a Recorder? I assume that if it does then minus the HDD that you mention. What am I getting here exactly for £245.16 inc VAT? It shows 5 cameras. I will need the Ethernet plugs to crimp the cable too. Is this cable not suitable for external? I would need the ethernet conectors nor shon as extras. AND where are those miniature pub cameras.

The flat would be empty so no recordings there. The one external, possibly only the postman. I would at best have a few hours of recordings a day if EVER. So how much storage for a month? 1T / 2T / 4T?

This one does not mention: SMS, email, remote viewing , Audio etc.

Thanks for your help cymruchris.
I am good with IT and computers so should be able to put tit together myself.

 

[Pablo56]

Just a thought. I am used to Computers. I haven't thought about monitoring. Would I need a monitor or could I use a PC monitor?

 

[cymruchris]

The link you have posted is a 'build yourself a system page' - you don't get the full system and five cameras for the £245 when you first click on it. Look carefully - you have to move the + and - accordingly for what you want. Once you've added the hard drive, cable, tool and selected which camera you want it's more like £400+. (And with 4 channel - 4 cameras is your max - the picture shows 5 cameras to show the different types of camera available - not that you get 5 cameras)

There's no SMS with Hikvision.

Email can be set up on the full-blown recorders - but you need a certain type of email address for it to work. (Gmail doesn't work).

Remote viewing/notifications are both through the Hikconnect app.

The cameras you've chosen have no audio. The ones I'd linked to do.

Being the budget model - when you get a notification of an event - you then have to click on it to see it while it loads it directly from the NVR. The regular Hikvision range sends you a preview image in the app so you have an idea of who/what caused it without having to load up the clip.

The budget model has limited capacity for smart events like intruder detection and line crossing detection - if you try to set up smart events across all 4 cameras, it usually can't handle it (More limited processing power). The regular Hikvision range can handle multiple smart events across all cameras.

I would avoid dome cameras as they can have problematic night images, and are more likely to attract spiders. I've found turrets best in general day to day usage.

The systems have a regular HDMI or VGA output (depending on what model you choose) and can connect to a regular PC monitor.

 

[Thor]

You can also look at Reolink, for the flat, WiFi cameras and small footprint.
Not good quality, but will work.

Uniview has Wifi options that are rock solid.

Hikvision if you don't value your time.

 

[Pablo56]

Okay. You say that HikVision is the budget end. Does the same manufacturer have an up market version.
I was wondering what the format of the recording is. MP4?
If there was activity in two rooms would there be some switching system to take a frame from each one so to speak.
If there was an incident could I with the aid of a memory stick or some other method copy just one camera complete footage at a time?

I used to work in the CCTV industry in the 1990’s as a CCTV designer and it was one frame from each. I am still looking into this but am taking advice and if I need better, I will get better.