Deep base or not? Steel Wire Armour cables or not?

[will_k]

Hi all, I'm planning on ordering some Hikvision DS-2CD2386G2 cameras and have been speaking to different companies about installing them, however I'm getting conflicting answers from them on different things, which I need to decide before I can order, but I'm not sure which one to trust.

1. I am mounting my cameras on the side walls of my property, do I need a deep base (eg. DS-1280ZJ-DM21)? Some say they can do it without a deep base, while others say I need it. I have seen photos online of cameras without deep bases, but not sure if they have as much cables as Hikvision cameras. Obviously, if possible, I would like to not buy an extra deep base, as it increase the size of the camera and also it has a side hole, which doesn't look great?

2. If I don't use a deep base, does it mean the drilled hole will need to be bigger to hide the cables? Which I would rather avoid, and just buy the deep base if that is the case. I'm just trying to understand why the extra bases are needed.

3. For one of the cameras, the cabling is required to go round the outside of my property, passing and hiding through some gravel, a company is selling me Steel Wire Armoured cables at an extra cost? Is this necessary? While another company is telling me "direct burial cables" is sufficient. They also tell me if I use SWA, I can't use the Hikvision Deep bases, as the hole is not big enough, it needs to be over 20mm. Is this true?

Please can someone help, thank you in advance.

 

[David]

I’ve used wall mount junction boxes, similar to the one you mentioned, for all my security cameras. It gives a much neater install especially if you are using conduit and the cameras pigtail has somewhere to go. for the cameras across the garden I’ve used direct bury cat5 and routed it wher there is little chance of it being dug up.

SWA cable usually terminates in its own junction box and continues in standard conduit. There are many variations on this.

 

[JB1970]

1. I am mounting my cameras on the side walls of my property, do I need a deep base (eg. DS-1280ZJ-DM21)? Some say they can do it without a deep base, while others say I need it. I have seen photos online of cameras without deep bases, but not sure if they have as much cables as Hikvision cameras. Obviously, if possible, I would like to not buy an extra deep base, as it increase the size of the camera and also it has a side hole, which doesn't look great?

For the newer turrets you need either the specific deep base or you could mount a weatherproof base directly adjacent and make the cables off in that. Obviously the latter while slightly cheaper does not look as neat. The newer turrets such as the one you've mentioned do not have a sufficiently large recess behind them to coil a connection into (the older ones did but it was still a little awkward). Furthermore the cable assembly seems to be getting shorter and will not pass through a cavity wall to make the connection internally. So unless the camera is to be mounted directly beneath a soffit you'd need the base or a box.

2. If I don't use a deep base, does it mean the drilled hole will need to be bigger to hide the cables? Which I would rather avoid, and just buy the deep base if that is the case. I'm just trying to understand why the extra bases are needed.

As detailed above. Yes the hole would need to be enlarged and you could potentially recess the body of the weatherproof connector but the cable assembly wouldn't be long enough to go through the wall. If you use the audio (IU) or two way audio (ISU/SL) models there are additional connectors which would make it even more difficult to do without a box.

3. For one of the cameras, the cabling is required to go round the outside of my property, passing and hiding through some gravel, a company is selling me Steel Wire Armoured cables at an extra cost? Is this necessary? While another company is telling me "direct burial cables" is sufficient. They also tell me if I use SWA, I can't use the Hikvision Deep bases, as the hole is not big enough, it needs to be over 20mm. Is this true?

There are a few ways of doing that. I've not come across direct burial CAT5E (that's not to say it doesn't exist). There's no reason why SWA can't terminate into the base as it's the opposite of what they're saying - you'd use a CW20S (20mm) external gland for the SWA and the base would need fitting with a 25mm to 20mm reducing bush (as the cable entry is too large) but SWA is overkill IMHO. I'd simply install CAT5PE within 20mm plastic conduit, ensuring that all bends are solvent welded. At the camera this would either terminate with a male adaptor into a 25 - 20 reducing bush directly, or I sometimes finish the plastic conduit with a short piece of flexible conduit (as the cable entry on the base is further from the wall than the back spacer of a conduit saddle)

Bear in mind that every company will do things slightly differently and that's not to say that one is right or wrong. Although saying that quite often I see another installers work and think "how did they get away with that it's totally gash"

 

[codlord]

Have a look at this image which shows the likely "tail" on the cameras:

Plus the other end of the weatherproof connection make quite a bulky connection:

That cable and connection all has to sit somewhere. Even if the installer did manage to jam it behind the camera straight on the wall it would likely be exposed to the elements/water over time and fail. Which is why they are saying to use the junction box bases - it's better, easier and will likely last longer without failure.

As for cables I am sure there are numerous specs and types of SWA of all sorts of outside diameters. I work on a site which has all sorts of cables (interior spec, exterior spec, slightly armored, in conduit, directly buried, in gravel etc) and some still work after years, others have failed. Your company just sound like they are specifying something that has a chance of lasting and ideally you want a single run of cable without junction boxes if possible.

 

[will_k]

Thank you everyone, that really answers my question. I think getting the deep base sounds like the best and easiest solution. I thought the cables could maybe cramped in there, but I guess it would not last long as some of you said.

With the cabling, I will check the price difference and make a balance decision based on that as well. Thank you.

 

[JB1970]

Thank you everyone, that really answers my question. I think getting the deep base sounds like the best and easiest solution. I thought the cables could maybe cramped in there, but I guess it would not last long as some of you said.

With the cabling, I will check the price difference and make a balance decision based on that as well. Thank you.

It’s not that it would be cramped, they just will not fit - you’d have to cut a recess behind the camera.

From an installation point of view, if it were a long run buried, then SWA would be easier and possibly cheaper. I’d just prefer an unnecessary join however where the SWA emerges to ground level so it would depend on the route back to the NVR. I wouldn’t want SWA running internally and I wouldn’t fancy stripping the armour off for any great length either to avoid that join ( though it it were a single coupler it would be fine)